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Trusting the Cloud?

I am curious if there are any conversations in businesses on trusting the cloud after Parlor got pulled for political motivations effectively shutting down an entire company? Regardless of your political viewpoint, this should be worrying for any company that relies solely on cloud services.

When using cloud services your basically putting your companies future in someone else hands. I have never been an advocate for the cloud that's why even LR does not run in the cloud

It should concern everyone how the big tech companies can shutdown someone at a moment's notice effectively closing the doors on another company without any legal judgment. They became the judge jury and executioner.

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@omnipotens Indeed; as a wise person once said 'The cloud is just someone else's computer'. What we are lacking is ubiquitous hosting for nextcloud, something easy to set up which doesn't need a degree in PHP to make it work

@omnipotens Yup, great point. Someone can think "they did it yo the bad guys" but what if someone starts thinking that we are the bad guys?

@omnipotens Amazon said they were in breach of terms of service, so I'd only say there's a trust issue due to the pull if the ToS weren't clear.

That said, nobody trusts Amazon - so perhaps it's more about predictability. Random outages are unpredictable and unresolveable, the ToS breach might be unpredictable given that they were pulled up for hate speech, but a number of other companies also contain hate speech, and say they're a platform, rather than a publisher, in order to bypass the law.

@malin but that is just it they can interpret ToS anyway they want and kill your service. However you add it up it was still a political move where politics was the motivating factor. The term hate speech itself is such a broad term that the interpretation is normally on the eyes of the accuser. When using cloud services your subject to their view point and can be subject to termination for various reasons and effectively shut your whole business now at a moment's notice.

@omnipotens After a little netsearch, I've found the main complaint from Amazon was threats of violence. Looks like they were bog-standard illegal, like selling heroine online.

I can't even do that in Serbia, and we're allowed to torrent films here.

Getting stuff done yourself's great, but I don't think a home server would help if the platform has illegal content. Even Twitter's forced to ban people who post clearly illegal content.

@malin Well FB and Twitter also have that kind of content. That kind of content was also not allowed on Parlor either and happens and when it was caught it was taken down by moderators. No different from facebook and twitter in that regards.

@omnipotens Facebook have responded to calls for moderation by hiring people. The ineptitude and poor funding of those teams is fairly well known, but it might make a big legal difference.

If one organization has a cycle of violent threats, with poor moderation, and another organization has violent threats but simply refuses to take them down, that sounds like a real legal difference.

@malin yeah but if those standard applied them most of the social media and news networks would be shutdown. From airing a picture to Trumps severed head to Maxin Waters calling for attacks on Republicans. Seems a double standard there

@omnipotens I'm not familiar with US politicians, but if they advocated beheading on a platform, and the platform responded by refusing to moderate, then that definitely sounds illegal.

I'd be more worried about the incitement to violence that's being left up than the stuff that's taken down.

@malin Yeah there is a huge double standard. Facebook still has those photos up that some celebrity made and possed with Trump's head. Most media covered it and showed it. That's just one out of thousands of examples. There is a big political divide with a lot of double standards. Most of the elites including big tech lean Democrats. Most of the rural people lean Republican. In the past few years, media and tech have been censoring people in the republican party.

@omnipotens I've not seen the severed head pics, but if it's presented as a threat of violence and moderation was refused, then I'd definitely be more worried about that being up than parler being taken down.

@omnipotens @malin

Is it really violence to pose with a fake severed head?

I don't think so.

Facebook and Twitter have millions of Leftists calling for imprisonment, censorship, and violence against conservatives.

That's the issue.

@malin @omnipotens that's just factually incorrect. There were and have been Parler posts that have been taken down. Breaking the law isn't tolerated or given the green light hiding behind "free speech". The idea that Parler was just some mainstream silk road anything goes platform is exactly what mainstream media wanted it painted to be.

@omnipotens
Similarly, we don't have bots masquerading as people on LR. One got on, I was late to remove it, but I'm assuming other instances don't hold it against us, and that they understand moderation's never going to be perfect.

They'd probably be less happy with us if we just let people make spam bots without trying to moderate.

@malin @omnipotens 1. Join rival platform. 2. Make violent threats on rival platform. 3. Report your own violent threats on rival platform. 4. Shut down rival platform for threats you made on rival platform.

More cheating, and they made the rules that they are allowed to break on their own platform, by applying them differently to those you agree/disagree with.
Even morons are catching on to this, and it will not be the end of the Far Right. It will cause others to become far right. The Left causes what it claims to fight by treating those in the middle like enemies.

@Orakel 'the Left' is a bogeyman. This is a big stream of other-people's-ideas.

@malin I don't care what you call them. Any name will do. It's an ideological fight, and it's already been many times.
@omnipotens

Amazon in 2025:

"we are pleased to announce that we will be turning off all servers to [regular company] as it has been revealed they missed the recommended target for hiring minority, POC, and LGBTXQRSTY gender preferences."

@omnipotens Any smart company will start rethinking this after what has happened. I'm not even sure a hybrid approach is good strategy.

@omnipotens I mean, sure, but the problem's bigger than that, because they'll literally shut down your bank accounts.
@omnipotens

If you want to throw out someone who is trespassing your home you don't need a judge, jury or police. In some parts of America you can even shoot that person by default.

Social Networks are not some fucking free space provided by a government. It is still virtual private property.

@simon
I think @omnipotens is talking more about AWS and such than socnets per se.

Technically, a domain registrar, a hosting company, a cloud provider, etc. can revoke your service for any reason they want, but I don't think comparing it to your backyard is a good comparison.

@simon @omnipotens
What if a bus company $C refused service to person $X because the CEO of $C doesn't like $X ?

@wolf480pl @omnipotens

They are also privately own and you will be surprised how fast you get booted from their service if you piss them off.

If it is just because of trivial causes, you can fight back legally. But in the current case it is pretty clear.

@simon @wolf480pl Is it pretty clear? That seems to be pretty objective depending on what side of the aisle you're looking at it from.

@omnipotens @wolf480pl

If you are a true Q believer, yes I guess that it is not that clear. But then the providers are just part of the Pizza Hut trafficking conspiracy so you don't want to support them anyway.

@wolf480pl @simon Some wackjob that spins a lot of conspiracy theories that no one really listens to but the media like to hype him up as the leader of the trump supporters.

@omnipotens @simon
wait, so media made a conspiracy theory about a conspiracy theorist controlling everyone from the shadows?

@simon @omnipotens @wolf480pl a kinda unrelated question, I've saw many people on fedi talking about this Q thing, is that Qanon or other thing?

@kumicota @wolf480pl @simon I think Qanon is the movement/followers but honestly don't know to much about it. To be honest I am in a lot of political groups on both sides Republicans and Democrats and really the only mentions I ever see are from Democrats and I have never bothered looking into it deeper as most of what I have seen just seems silly.

@wolf480pl @omnipotens

AWS is not the only provider.

Also seizing a domain is something done by court and is a long process. So your complains do not apply for domains.

@simon
Right, AWS isn't the only provider. Its competitors should be more than happy to provide service to whoever got booted off AWS.
And if they don't, because the person pissed off all of them, then you could argue it's deserved.

Except there's vendor lock-in.

So if we fix the bigger problem - anti-competitive practices - the problem @omnipotens described shouldn't be a big issue anymore.

@simon There is a big difference between someone on your property and a social media post but that is not even the issue. The issue is how much power you give a cloud provider over your company when you use them as a service.

@omnipotens I certainly wouldn't recommend them to clients, especially after this

@omnipotens Forget the political ramifications for a moment.

People shouldn't trust the cloud because services can just be shut down at a moment's notice with no chance of saving your data, or your business.

There's been some very high profile shutdowns that were not politically motivated. If that isn't enough justification, i don't know what is.

Political silencing is just icing on the cake.

@omnipotens I don't mean specific people getting shut down, i mean a cloud provider shutting down suddenly without warning, and taking its data with it.

@omnipotens I agree. The cloud is a great resource. And can be used to great profitable degree, but it should be appended to your work flow and business model. Not consume it. Ideally you should be in a position where you are really hurt if the cloud providers turn on your business, but not snuffed out by it.

@omnipotens Not a company yet. But hopefully soon.
Anyway, I was thinking about switching from small VPS provider to AWS once we get some customers, but now I'm inclined not to. I'll probably split the work between multiple cloud/VPS companies. That should provide enough flexibility for both quick reaction to load spikes with auto scaling and some resistance against what AWS did to parler.

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