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My gf's learning html. Nobody told her that vim's a strange tool for genius programmers, so I just told her it was a normal tool, showed her insert and escape, then let her get on with it.

Half an hour later, I showed her another vim command.

Someone with almost zero education, who can't type properly, is programming in vim because nobody told her it was difficult. I know people who can program in Haskell who aren't sure if they can do vim.

· tootstream · 28 · 88 · 143

Now she's switching randomly between getting irritated at the computer and shouting "YES, GOT IT!" to nobody at all.

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@malin I've found that about a lot of things.

Things that folks have been told is impossible to do, and then bam, they can't do it.

Or have been told is hard and thus bam it's hard in their head.

@malin yea, but can she ever exit :)

I love vim, but some days I love emacs.... and then others I hate Eclipse but I use it anyway... thank goodness for Vrapper

this reply goes against the entire ethos of your entire post, sorry this is a joke 

@malin this doesn't help me exit out of vim on my raspberry pi 1, please help

@malin I found an interactive vim tutorial online the other day and was messing around in it and I was like "Wait what's so hard about this?" It even tells you how to quit, how is that such a big joke?

Honestly I was a little disappointed when it was just a text editor with kinda weird controls, I expected much worse =P

@malin the reason I know vi today is because I just learned it as a teenager before people on the internet told me it's difficult.

(And I guess 80's DOS software already prepared me for this kind of UI, in a way)

@malin sounds like she is hooked. Have you got her using tmux or screen too?

@BradleySmall Nah. I have a single education tactic for myself and the world - never learn anything, only gather tools to solve problems.

I only know tmux because I had a problem and that was the fix. The only thing in computing I've had to 'study' is Microsoft, because it's never the right tool for a job.

@malin I started on MSDOS 3.3 and worked my way through all the Windows and OS/2. I made Penthouse over 400k on a program that I wrote for DOS with SVGA that they gave away for free. Even for Porn, sometimes M$ can be the right tool for the job

@malin I'm so invested in this. All they taught us was how to exit vim if you accidentally open it

@roli_skates @malin I don't understand this. Why would you want to leave Vim 😂😂

@zingbretsen @malin I don't rightly know! It was just put forth that we should just close it and use vs code instead

tech, privilege 

@malin most people who say vim is hard are either vim users who like feeling special, or people who believed them but never genuinely tried to learn it

same applies to a lot of tech skills, whenever the privileged try to justify their privilege because they had the time, energy and encouragement to learn them

imagine the uproar if people were told that 90%+ of tech jobs don't require any special abilities and most people could quickly learn to do them with some basic training

re: tech, privilege 

@kiilas @malin I keep trying to tell people that what they think is hard isn't hard at all!

I teach people things all the time and the response is "Really? That was easy!"

And i'm like YES! Things are easy! Explore the interfaces, a lot of the time the actual UI will explain to you via hoverover or nearby text as to what it'll do! Experiment in scratch documents so you can see for yourself what things do!

There are some more difficult things, sure, but there's SO MUCH that people think is hard because people have told them is hard and it's frustrating.

What makes me incredibly upset -- not at the people themselves! -- is the mentality that thing are so impossibly hard, that they cannot figure the big bad scary computer out...

Even when it's giving them instructions on how to fix the issue in the error message itself.

I cannot count the number of times where i have helped someone fix an issue by slightly rephrasing exactly what was in the screenshot of an error message...

@malin they teach some of my college classes in vim

@fluffy @malin I actually did that with mommy. She is pretty good at it now. :blobcatsmug:

@malinI didn't thought of vim as difficult.
The major problem was the habits I had from decades of gui and windows keyboard shortcuts that I'm still battling with.
I'll feel comfortable in vim, I won't give up !

@malin I’ve heard similar arguments about learning Haskell. Along the lines of, if you learn programming through Haskell it’s not hard. It’s unlearning imperative/OO programming that is in fact the hard bit. I can’t confirm though as I learnt imperative first so Haskell feels hard to me.

@wezm @malin I've heard the same thing. Actually someone I know who has learned programming with Haskell found learning imperative programming after it confusing at first, so the reverse might also be true. Although a sample size of one is not representative of course ;)

@malin on the other hand, I used vim without knowing what it was at all, and I could neither edit anything nor escape from it for 20 minutes.

@malin I’ve never heard of vim. This is very interesting. It’s also a very inspirational story.

@malin
As long as you told her to "write and quit" as opposed to "save and exit," everything should be golden 😎

@malin
i dont like vim because i grew up with windows notepad....and later on notepad++

@malin vim is confusing, i prefer using sublime text because i use the mouse a lot

@Ste1lar @malin theres do much stuff that i use my editor for thst sounds like itd just take more effort or be impossible in vim
plus i have terrible memory so i can never remember the commands to do anything

@pie @malin wait isnt vim the thing were you need to press wq to save and quit? oh i was thinking about emacs i'm so dumb

yeah vim is very simple to use but i prefer to use the mouse, my dad he only use the keyboard because he was from the era were there was no mouse so its understanding

@chumii @pie @malin when i opened it to make my mount file for arch linux i dint know how to save and quit and i completely fucked up the file by smashing the keyboard until it saved

@Ste1lar @pie @malin I know that feeling. I felt very stupid using vimtutor because I wasn't able to quit before I realized the ':' and the '!' are part of the command.
@malin so true. People tend to mystify tools like vim so they don't even try to use them.
Or it is the opposite and they don't really use it efficiently instead they are only posing bc they know it is mystified.
@malin so true. People tend to mystify tools like vim so they don't even try to use them.
Or it is the opposite and they don't really use it efficiently instead they are only posing bc they know it is mystified.

@malin @ztpnk you are, indeed, a genius and I bow before you.

Now I hope even more to get a girlfriend, so I can do the same with her in Rust and Haskell.

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