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FOSS is political, but also kinda weird.

Most political viewpoints have nay-sayers, but you don't get people who say 'code should be hidden'. Nobody loves Windows - they put up with it. Nobody says it's great that all governments have their computers controlled by a single, foreign corporation.

It's 100% 'raising awareness' and 0% antagonism.

@malin Well, there are still some people who believe that security through obscurity works, to which 'code should be hidden' is an essential part. Especially apple-fans who have no idea what source code even is (and all the implications) "closed source" is a feature.

@NickFreeman I suppose so, though I've never seen any who are expressly anti-FOSS. They just like what they have.

@malin err, no? A lot of people are like “yeah its nice everyone does release their shit, but I will only take & not give back to the commons & that is my right”

look at what they do, not what they say

@bootie_fringe @malin i mean, there's certain licenses that avoid people taking code and using it without contributing back

@Novimatrem @malin yeah just look for the kind of ppl who claim those re *never* appropriate, a lot of those are corporate shills or other kinds of “I do not want to give, only take” assholes.

@Novimatrem @malin everyone who says it should be totally allowed to keep code secret from users or deny them the ability to change it is the opposition

@bootie_fringe @Novimatrem
I never give back code, but then I can only code in Latex.

More seriously, that might be a worry, but it's not an ostensible political position. Nobody's standing on a soap box to advocate 'no code, only take'_dog.jpg.

@malin @Novimatrem

> Nobody's standing on a soap box to advocate 'no code, only take'_dog.jpg.

corporate anti-copyleft types

@bootie_fringe I think that's just adverts.

Let me rephrase - some people avoid code because it's hidden. Nobody avoid Android because the source is open. Nobody says 'I like Facebook, but I wish they'd use Windows 2019 instead of CentOS as the backend'.

@malin

> some people avoid code because it's hidden. Nobody avoid Android because the source is open.

ppl avoid (a)gplv3 software (yes even using it sometimes) bc it requires giving back the improvements

@bootie_fringe Do they talk openly about breaking the law, like some kind of 21st Max Stirner?

@malin the german BSI (federal office for both IT security & police trojan development LMAO) uses secret algorithms & proprietary software instead of open ones too

@malin Microsoft, etc would say otherwise... They don't want to share their code yet still wants our money.

But that's a rounding error!

@alcinnz @malin Ok, so we come to like 1% unreleased sources, 10% raising awareness but this leaves out the 20% finding the FOSS with a UX fitting the person at hand and also 70% surviving foss-bros.
And yes, there is a rounding error.

Also the magnitude of unreleased sources only holds truth above chip board level given most microcode, firmware etc is still closed and their significance grows when going to embedded devices like smartphones. Our pocket computer are not desktops.

@uniporn @malin Ah yes, the foss-bros do tend to be the most vocal among us! And we do have plenty more work to do in making a FOSS lifestyle feasable!

> but you don't get people who say 'code should be hidden'
@malin We must not be talking to the same people...

@easrng I've seen adverts saying this, but I've never seen a real person up for political chat. There's no equivalent of vegan vs non-vegan, just a few people who don't know their history.

@malin Hmm. I guess I never hear people say "all code should be hidden" but I hear "*my* code should be hidden" quite often.

@easrng @malin A lot of enterprisey devs actually hold this view to some extent, they're just not very vocal on the usual programming discussion places :02lurk:

@koakuma @easrng That's the 'raising awareness' bit I was talking about. There's ignorance, but there are no public movements to get the Linux out of government, or removing open-source encryption.

@malin I've literally heard people argue in favour of proprietary software because they actually believed that hiding how a piece of software works makes it more secure.

To those people, I have one thing to say: solarwinds

@malin I can say for certain that deep within the UK government they are running sandboxed highly secure variant of Linux.

@malin I know this is an old toot, but I think there is a counter argument for the sake of having a job, and supporting a family. That said, I wouldn't go full closed-code

@joegrimer Open-source programs get made by volunteers and people who get paid.

The people who make Chromium, Linux, nginx, et c., all get paid wages, at least those working on it full-time.

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