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It's been a while, but I finaly got Feeds to work on / , including a very fresh build of

I've spent some time ironing out some porting bugs, but so far it looks really good!

There's still a lot of work to do, plus probably refactoring some stuff, but it's finally coming together!

@gabmus this looks very much like content that should be announced on #thisweek:gnome.org to be featured in thisweek.gnome.org !

@gabmus sadly #libadwaita forces it's theming style. that just suxx :(

@scops could be wrong but I think that you can make themes that support libadwaita.

I'm not opposed to theming , but I can pretty much assure you that at some point themes just break UIs, because more often than not devs rely on the default stylesheet for readability as well as custom styles.

This is a difficult conversation to have, and while I'd love to have themes that would magically just work, I can see how it's not really possible for gtk at this point in time.

@gabmus yes, they could break the UI. but thats the freedom for the user. if a user "want" to break a UI... why shouldn't "you" (libadwaita) force him not to do so? yes, it's a difficult conversation and i'm on the "pro theme" side ;) maybe you could support libhandy too? i use this theme on my devices; github.com/daniruiz/skeuos-gtk (at the moment,... besides Pho-Earth and others depending on mood)

@scops

> you could support libhandy too?

nay, doesn't work with gtk4

> thats the freedom for the user

I understand, and I agree with you, but this is a technical limitation, not an imposition

@gabmus Thats (gtk4 / libhandy) are really bad news (for me) :( i hope there will be a working port of libhandy in the future. :(

@scops libadwaita IS the working port. The theming problem related to libadwaita is something to do with the direction gtk as a whole is taking. libadwaita is developed by the same people that develop gtk, as a natural extension to it, not as a third party add-on.

@gabmus @scops

libadwaita is developed by the same people that develop gtk

No no no. While we have contributions to GTK we are not the core GTK developers. libadwaita’s explicit purpose is to decouple the direction of GNOME from the direction of GTK.

@gabmus @scops The maintainers of libhandy are the same people maintaining libadwaita, so it’s not likely that libhandy will get another port from them.

@brainblasted @gabmus *args... i think i will quit using gnome in the future - or stuck at gnome 40.x till i can't use it anymore (system upgrade needed or something like that)... the time i started using linux theming was one of the "core end user features" ... :'( thats really a shame the direction goes...

@scops @gabmus it’s largely due to wanting our platform to be more reliable for developers - there may be a future for customization that fits within that goal, but any future thing needs to be easy for developers to account for or opt out of.

@brainblasted @gabmus yes... gtk3 theming is a real fuck up compared with gtk2. i know why a DE don't want to support it. but hey... why not just letting people to hack if they want... a good and only official default theme is just right... closing up things is just "apple-like" :)

@scops @gabmus They can, just not the way they typically did before - setting the GTK_THEME environment variable allows them to load another stylesheet.

@brainblasted @gabmus hmm maybe gnome-tweaks just fill this gap somewhere in the future and set the var automatically... in the meantime ... .profile x)

@brainblasted @gabmus thats all fine to decouple it... but to force users to use only ONE ui theme makes the project more like for example apple.

@scops @gabmus GNOME never officially supported themes. That’s just something that people could do because GTK supported it and we used plain GTK instead of a platform library like libgranite.

@scops @gabmus Sorry, “never” was wrong - but we haven’t supported it since GNOME 3.

@scops @brainblasted @gabmus GTK2 themes could literally side-load code into your applications. You may think that's a good feature, but I'm afraid that's on you.

@ebassi @brainblasted @gabmus no no, i don't want gtk2 back. i just say on the theming side it was "easy" with a good result to theme the ui :)
besides; if someone installs a theme from a untrusty source... it's the own fault. it's like that you shouldn't drive a car if you dont have a driving license... you can but you must bear the blame.

@scops @ebassi @gabmus how are they to know what’s an untrustworthy source when they’re just told “hey look, you can download themes!”

@scops @brainblasted @gabmus Things are so clear cut. Distributions add their own themes; applications add their own themes; and users expect everything to work, and will not accept the blame—especially if it seems that themes are actually supported. Then people will come screaming into the GTK issue tracker, and then *I* have to deal with them.

@ebassi @brainblasted @gabmus default answer templates... i know the problems (i'm also a developer ^^) thats a (bad) side of the work

@ebassi @brainblasted @gabmus hmm in the "theme selection" there could be just a disclaimer; "unsupported theme, if you use it it's your problem" ;) but yes, the noobs will come screaming either... the plasma guys should have the same problems, no?

@gabmus You seem to have worked with WebkitGTK so I hope you are the right person to ask. Any idea why it's the slowest web engine on the Pinephone? I mean it's not the fastest on desktop ether but there has to be some Pinephone specific issue because as soon as you enable JS it gets close to unusable :/ Idk if it's Webkit or WebkitGTK specific tbh but I can confirm WPEWebkit works great while the GTK version doesn't.

@gamey Tipically when using webkitgtk you force disable hardware acceleration in the app (one way is via environment variables). This is because some GPUs (nvidia, go figure) have issues running with it.

It depends on the app tho.

The gtk4 branch of Feeds right now has acceleration enabled, and fortunately I have access to all major GPUs, so when I'm done porting it I can test it and verify if it's still a problem on gtk4.

@gabmus So Epiphany runs without hw acceleration by default? 🤔 Sounds like a bad idea for a browser tbh!

@gamey Actually recent ephy builds should have it enabled... I guess it also depends on the distribution, they could override it, but so can you. It should be a runtime variable, not a compile time one.

@gabmus What variable so I need? I would like to try if it improves things or if the PPs GPU is just to old.

@gabmus @gamey Hardware acceleration actually is a runtime variable these days, and enabling it in GNOME Web / Epiphany makes the browser perform so much better (at least on Intel GPUs).

You can find it in dconf-editor.

Or:

gsettings set org.gnome.Epiphany.web:/ hardware-acceleration-policy 'always'

(By default it's 'on-demand', which means it is only enabled when there are 3D transformations.)

@garrett @gabmus Even with that it's absolutely unusable compared to Firefox or Angelfish :/ I am not sure why but WebkitGTK just works like dog shit on the Pinephone. I could imagine it having issues with OpenGL ES2 which as far as I know is the most up to date thing the Pinephones GPU can handle but it's sad ether way because a properly scaling and working browser is really needed.

@gamey @gabmus Ugh, that is sad. Hopefully it gets better soon.

Meanwhile, I wonder how well Epiphany works on the just-announced PinePhone Pro.

Still, having optimization where WebKitGTK works better everywhere, especially on the original PinePhone and also Librem 5, would be hugely beneficial. Hopefully it's happen. (I do happen to know devs working on it and improving the performance, but it's a big task for sure.)

@garrett The sad part is that most projects probably wont ever see optimizations for the Pinephone because OpenGL ES2 is not exactly the future. Let's hope Epiphany is not one of those cases but I have my doubts tbh and I can't even be really mad if I am honest to myself because I love Vulcan and without the Pinephone probably wouldn't even be aware that there are devices stuck on old OpenGL at all.

@gamey The devs are definitely interested in optimizing WebKit for lower powered devices. WebKitGTK has a WPE port @ wpewebkit.org/

So perhaps it'll get better over time? Not sure, really.

I guess people generally run Firefox with userChrome.css overrides? The source is at: gitlab.com/postmarketOS/mobile (it should work on all mobile Linux distros)

For PostMarketOS, it's in the mobile-config-firefox package, which should be installed by default.
wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Fir

@garrett I am aware of WPEWebKit (used it with cog before) and it works great but I didn't know the WebKitGTK team had a eye on it. The issue with Firefox is that it's mobile config is just there to make the desktop version usable not mobile optimized by any stretch of the imagination and about PWAs with it, Mozilla killed that a while ago so all that's left is -kiosk :/ Purism uses Epiphany and while it's slow it dose work decent enough on the Librem5 so I fear Pinephone Phosh wont get much.

@gabmus this is probably among the very first applications which use #WebKitGTK being ported to GTK4, cool! :blobcatcoffee:

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